Bonus? The 10-Finger Demon The Bayesian Conspiracy 0:00 / 0:53:320:00 VolumeDOWNLOAD << 15s15s >>Playback speed1.0x1.25x1.5x1.75x2.0x2.25x2.5x2.75x3.0x3.25x3.5x3.75x4.0x ▶ Watch video Return to audioOpen on YouTube ↗ Notes+Link> Bonus? The 10-Finger Demon Download ↓CommentJump× Close A hypothetical about a finger-collecting demon throws Eneasz for a major loop. 5 comments Thanks for sharing this, it was very interesting and touching to hear. One thing I find interesting about the ten finger thought experiment is how much easier it would be if you could take those ten fingers from someone else But I don’t know, maybe it is just me, but I also have some hangups making a sacrifice that I will have to experience, while for the rewards you have to trust in the existence of other minds, that the world is not just an illusion. Especially if you’re meeting some weirdo demon, seems fake. Wishing you good luck with becoming more optimistic again. Reply First, a question: The rule of “no inflation” means, that lots of physical goods and whole parts of earth appear to balance out the gain of such huge amounts of money? Then advice, on not taking any deal offered by a demon: The offer might be a trap. Not in our world, but if everyone maximizes the outcome for the greater good, giving 10 fingers for unbelievable monetary wealth, mankind falls into this trap. The podcast host seemed sad for not doing the “rational” thing, but let me explain, why it can be irrational to maximize fingers spent on money gained, i.e. the offer being worse than you think. The trap goes like this: In a world of rationalists, the demon makes the same offer to everyone at the same time. Everyone loses all fingers and gains unprecedented wealth. According to the no-inflation rule, someone still has to offer all the wares and services. Selling them, so fulfilling an offer, will be quite hard for things like hand-dependent jobs. Is that still maintaining the no inflation rule? Does a subservient specias spawn into existance to actually deliver anything at old market price? The whole rule makes no sense, because 10 trillion dollars of purchasing power you can spend on stuff as an individual will always cause a market shift toward what you choose to buy. Reply Yeah, it’s a magical hypothetical, the point of thinking about it is to interrogate your own values. If an actual demon actually shows up there’s too many failures of my model of the world to take any major action before a LOT of investigating and updating has been done (probably starting with a mental hospital) Reply PS The demon of course only springs the trap, i.e. concludes all deals, if every single one says “all fingers shall go”. If a sufficient number of digits[ˆ1] remains, not a single deal is fulfilled. So instead of doings the deal that would be a net boon, they all will not be concluded. Another weird idea about the phrasing of making a deal with a demon: Does zero giving zero fingers yield zero dollars; but as a contract, you did conclude the deal? Does dealing with demons have other implications, like not reaching an afterlife? Or condemn you to a worse one? TL;DR: Don’t Deal with demons. Ask Wyll, on Why! ——- Footnotes: 1: Digit as in latin word for finger. Significant digits, the HPMOR follow-up book, should be on this. Reply Pingback: Cost, Not Sacrifice – Subatomic Articles Join the conversation Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment * Name * Email * Website Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email. Δ This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Thanks for sharing this, it was very interesting and touching to hear. One thing I find interesting about the ten finger thought experiment is how much easier it would be if you could take those ten fingers from someone else But I don’t know, maybe it is just me, but I also have some hangups making a sacrifice that I will have to experience, while for the rewards you have to trust in the existence of other minds, that the world is not just an illusion. Especially if you’re meeting some weirdo demon, seems fake. Wishing you good luck with becoming more optimistic again. Reply
First, a question: The rule of “no inflation” means, that lots of physical goods and whole parts of earth appear to balance out the gain of such huge amounts of money? Then advice, on not taking any deal offered by a demon: The offer might be a trap. Not in our world, but if everyone maximizes the outcome for the greater good, giving 10 fingers for unbelievable monetary wealth, mankind falls into this trap. The podcast host seemed sad for not doing the “rational” thing, but let me explain, why it can be irrational to maximize fingers spent on money gained, i.e. the offer being worse than you think. The trap goes like this: In a world of rationalists, the demon makes the same offer to everyone at the same time. Everyone loses all fingers and gains unprecedented wealth. According to the no-inflation rule, someone still has to offer all the wares and services. Selling them, so fulfilling an offer, will be quite hard for things like hand-dependent jobs. Is that still maintaining the no inflation rule? Does a subservient specias spawn into existance to actually deliver anything at old market price? The whole rule makes no sense, because 10 trillion dollars of purchasing power you can spend on stuff as an individual will always cause a market shift toward what you choose to buy. Reply
Yeah, it’s a magical hypothetical, the point of thinking about it is to interrogate your own values. If an actual demon actually shows up there’s too many failures of my model of the world to take any major action before a LOT of investigating and updating has been done (probably starting with a mental hospital) Reply
PS The demon of course only springs the trap, i.e. concludes all deals, if every single one says “all fingers shall go”. If a sufficient number of digits[ˆ1] remains, not a single deal is fulfilled. So instead of doings the deal that would be a net boon, they all will not be concluded. Another weird idea about the phrasing of making a deal with a demon: Does zero giving zero fingers yield zero dollars; but as a contract, you did conclude the deal? Does dealing with demons have other implications, like not reaching an afterlife? Or condemn you to a worse one? TL;DR: Don’t Deal with demons. Ask Wyll, on Why! ——- Footnotes: 1: Digit as in latin word for finger. Significant digits, the HPMOR follow-up book, should be on this. Reply
