237 – How A Rationalist Becomes A Christian The Bayesian Conspiracy 0:00 / 1:26:530:00 VolumeDOWNLOAD << 15s15s >>Playback speed1.0x1.25x1.5x1.75x2.0x2.25x2.5x2.75x3.0x3.25x3.5x3.75x4.0x ▶ Watch video Return to audioOpen on YouTube ↗ Notes+Link> 237 – How A Rationalist Becomes A Christian Download ↓CommentJump× Close We speak with a long-time Denver rationalist who’s converting to Christianity about why. Part one, it turns out. LINKS Thomas Ambrose on Twitter The Rationalist Summer Trifecta: Manifest 2025 LessOnline 2025 VibeCamp 2025 00:00:05 – OK so why? 01:24:55 – Guild of the Rose 01:25:41 – Thank the Supporter! Our Patreon, or if you prefer Our SubStack Hey look, we have a discord! What could possibly go wrong? We now partner with The Guild of the Rose, check them out. Rationality: From AI to Zombies, The Podcast LessWrong Sequence Posts Discussed in this Episode: on hiatus, returning this summer 3 comments I want to take this opportunity to once again plug the idea that cosmological natural selection (https://theeggandtherock.com/p/a-splendid-overview-of-the-current) has basically all the nice properties that spiritual atheists could want from religion Here are some features that Thomas and Eneasz describe as wanting in this interview, and how CNS provides them: * To feel there is a guiding force towards good. This is universal selection for black hole production, which encourages the creation and preservation of intelligent life. * To know there is a higher purpose. This is human progress, to develop to the point where we can produce many more universes. That being said, Christians believe that God knows what is best for everyone, and yet gifts everyone with free will. Correspondingly, humans have the opportunity to rise to their destiny of black hole production, but can choose not to (leaving it to alien species instead). * To encourage people to help each other. Specifically, Thomas doesn’t agree with utilitarianism because entertainment provides definitionally provides utility but doesn’t feel sacred. But CNS resolves this, because if advancing human progress leads to the creation of many new universes, then positive-externality producing prosocial behavior is potentially infinitely multiplied, and so is actually incredibly more moral than indulging in personal entertainment, despite providing similar gains in direct short-term utility. Because “whomsoever saves a life…” * To encourage community formation. The theory naturally encourages the continuation of humanity and society, and I think community should naturally form out of shared beliefs combined with a prosocial mindset due to innate human sociability. * To know that some things are unknowable. Since information cannot be transferred through black holes, we ultimately cannot know specifically what happens in other universes. At the same time, this provides you an opportunity to exercise your faith muscle, “knowing” that other universes are playing out well due to belief in the fundamental goodness of the evolutionary driving force. * To not require belief in false things. Everything in this theory is entirely consistent with current scientific knowledge. Reply Hi AG, I actually subscribe to the Egg and the Rock on Substack! Or, I did until a few weeks ago. Gough’s theory is fascinating but he needs to learn to write more concisely. I had not actually considered CNS teleologically before, and I find what you’ve said here arresting. I’ll be thinking about this a lot and I really appreciate you sharing this. Regarding this point: > * To not require belief in false things. Everything in this theory is entirely consistent with current scientific knowledge. I have much more to write about about this and will eventually get around to publishing my drafts on it, but: Good epistemics requires disbelieving false things while also believing true things. I feel LessWrongers are irrationally epistemically risk averse, and err by preferring the first to the second. The error lives mostly in the narrow construal of “belief”, and may be motivated by dislike of Christianity (which has erred in the opposite direction). PS, it looks from your substack photo that you’re at lighthaven this week? Me too! I’d love to chat with you about CNS. I’ll try to find you on writehaven but if I don’t, I’m sure Eneasz or Steven can connect us Reply Pingback: 238 – Part 2 of How A Rationalist Becomes A Christian | The Bayesian Conspiracy Join the conversation Cancel replyYour email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment * Name * Email * Website Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email. Δ This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
I want to take this opportunity to once again plug the idea that cosmological natural selection (https://theeggandtherock.com/p/a-splendid-overview-of-the-current) has basically all the nice properties that spiritual atheists could want from religion Here are some features that Thomas and Eneasz describe as wanting in this interview, and how CNS provides them: * To feel there is a guiding force towards good. This is universal selection for black hole production, which encourages the creation and preservation of intelligent life. * To know there is a higher purpose. This is human progress, to develop to the point where we can produce many more universes. That being said, Christians believe that God knows what is best for everyone, and yet gifts everyone with free will. Correspondingly, humans have the opportunity to rise to their destiny of black hole production, but can choose not to (leaving it to alien species instead). * To encourage people to help each other. Specifically, Thomas doesn’t agree with utilitarianism because entertainment provides definitionally provides utility but doesn’t feel sacred. But CNS resolves this, because if advancing human progress leads to the creation of many new universes, then positive-externality producing prosocial behavior is potentially infinitely multiplied, and so is actually incredibly more moral than indulging in personal entertainment, despite providing similar gains in direct short-term utility. Because “whomsoever saves a life…” * To encourage community formation. The theory naturally encourages the continuation of humanity and society, and I think community should naturally form out of shared beliefs combined with a prosocial mindset due to innate human sociability. * To know that some things are unknowable. Since information cannot be transferred through black holes, we ultimately cannot know specifically what happens in other universes. At the same time, this provides you an opportunity to exercise your faith muscle, “knowing” that other universes are playing out well due to belief in the fundamental goodness of the evolutionary driving force. * To not require belief in false things. Everything in this theory is entirely consistent with current scientific knowledge. Reply
Hi AG, I actually subscribe to the Egg and the Rock on Substack! Or, I did until a few weeks ago. Gough’s theory is fascinating but he needs to learn to write more concisely. I had not actually considered CNS teleologically before, and I find what you’ve said here arresting. I’ll be thinking about this a lot and I really appreciate you sharing this. Regarding this point: > * To not require belief in false things. Everything in this theory is entirely consistent with current scientific knowledge. I have much more to write about about this and will eventually get around to publishing my drafts on it, but: Good epistemics requires disbelieving false things while also believing true things. I feel LessWrongers are irrationally epistemically risk averse, and err by preferring the first to the second. The error lives mostly in the narrow construal of “belief”, and may be motivated by dislike of Christianity (which has erred in the opposite direction). PS, it looks from your substack photo that you’re at lighthaven this week? Me too! I’d love to chat with you about CNS. I’ll try to find you on writehaven but if I don’t, I’m sure Eneasz or Steven can connect us Reply
